Howdr
Mar 18, 09:26 AM
And stop making silly assumptions about subjects you know nothing about.
I've had an iPhone for a few years now and have unlimited data.
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I've had an iPhone for a few years now and have unlimited data.
munkery
May 2, 04:42 PM
google...
'windows more secure than OSX'
check the results, you have people who are professional coders telling it how it is... and has been since 2007.
ignorance of facts doesn't equal knowledge, if no one is trying to break the door down you don't need a big lock.
Really? Find a source that makes the statements you suggest above that is unbiased. By unbiased, I mean a source that doesn't sell vulnerabilities to ZDI which then produces and markets specific hardware security appliances to generate revenue.
Man in the browser is now the biggest issue for all OS's, malware wise.
All the info. happens via the browser, there is no point attacking anything else.
Hooking the APIs to log protected passwords in Mac OS X requires privilege escalation.
'windows more secure than OSX'
check the results, you have people who are professional coders telling it how it is... and has been since 2007.
ignorance of facts doesn't equal knowledge, if no one is trying to break the door down you don't need a big lock.
Really? Find a source that makes the statements you suggest above that is unbiased. By unbiased, I mean a source that doesn't sell vulnerabilities to ZDI which then produces and markets specific hardware security appliances to generate revenue.
Man in the browser is now the biggest issue for all OS's, malware wise.
All the info. happens via the browser, there is no point attacking anything else.
Hooking the APIs to log protected passwords in Mac OS X requires privilege escalation.
greenstork
Sep 12, 07:13 PM
How does Elgato not compete?
Sure it does:
1) I can pause mine.
2) I have a full software based one-click scheduling system
3) I can record high def content.
4) If I use two cards, I can record two streams via a signal splitter.
5) I can certainly watch a prerecorded show while doing all of the above: my Quad Core easily handles this.
Oh it's a competitor for sure, but doesn't measure up in terms of market and mind share. Can you do all of the above without interfacing with your computer? That's what I thought...
Sure it does:
1) I can pause mine.
2) I have a full software based one-click scheduling system
3) I can record high def content.
4) If I use two cards, I can record two streams via a signal splitter.
5) I can certainly watch a prerecorded show while doing all of the above: my Quad Core easily handles this.
Oh it's a competitor for sure, but doesn't measure up in terms of market and mind share. Can you do all of the above without interfacing with your computer? That's what I thought...
maclaptop
Apr 26, 07:47 AM
It's about power and control- nothing more.
Think Obama & Jobs the supreme power couple :)
Think Obama & Jobs the supreme power couple :)
ppmanguin
Apr 21, 05:28 AM
I just hate that people have to blindly bash Android products, and this isn't aimed directly at you, just the majority of users on this site in general.
____
I have iPhone 1-4. Recently I switched to Android 2.1 on Xperia X10 for the bigger screen and handsome white exterior.
Don't even expect the experience to be anything like iOS - you guys say it's like Windows - and it is like Windows...definitely.
I eventually got the hang of the Android system and I'm now quite knowledgeable wit it - so don't say the problems I'm about to tell you are user issues...please - I've got it all figured out.
There's a few very MAJOR problems with Android:
1. Takes ALOT of customization to get the way you like - the original stock firmwares released by the manufacturers are total crap. I had to root (like jail-breaking the iphone), install mods/themes to improve usability and a lot of others here and there. There's also crap software loaded onto the phone by the manufacturer and the carrier that slows the phone down, use battery etc etc etc... it takes a lot of time & effort to make the interface comparable to the elegance of iOS.
2. BIGGEST problem - APPS - you have to download everything you want. Most of the Google apps are in fact fragmented and Rubbish!
Eg. There's 2 email apps - 1 called "Gmail" and the other called "Email", except "Gmail" can't connect to anything other than Gmail while "Email" can connect to anything - so why have 2 apps. On top of that you can search emails in "Gmail", but not in "Email" Confusing? yes.
Along with that, standard apps you find on iOS are just missing and you have to download ugly, non-uniform apps for notepad, stop watch, voice memo stocks, weather and so on - not to mention they are unstable, quality not comparable to to iOS on many aspects, and not free.
____
I have iPhone 1-4. Recently I switched to Android 2.1 on Xperia X10 for the bigger screen and handsome white exterior.
Don't even expect the experience to be anything like iOS - you guys say it's like Windows - and it is like Windows...definitely.
I eventually got the hang of the Android system and I'm now quite knowledgeable wit it - so don't say the problems I'm about to tell you are user issues...please - I've got it all figured out.
There's a few very MAJOR problems with Android:
1. Takes ALOT of customization to get the way you like - the original stock firmwares released by the manufacturers are total crap. I had to root (like jail-breaking the iphone), install mods/themes to improve usability and a lot of others here and there. There's also crap software loaded onto the phone by the manufacturer and the carrier that slows the phone down, use battery etc etc etc... it takes a lot of time & effort to make the interface comparable to the elegance of iOS.
2. BIGGEST problem - APPS - you have to download everything you want. Most of the Google apps are in fact fragmented and Rubbish!
Eg. There's 2 email apps - 1 called "Gmail" and the other called "Email", except "Gmail" can't connect to anything other than Gmail while "Email" can connect to anything - so why have 2 apps. On top of that you can search emails in "Gmail", but not in "Email" Confusing? yes.
Along with that, standard apps you find on iOS are just missing and you have to download ugly, non-uniform apps for notepad, stop watch, voice memo stocks, weather and so on - not to mention they are unstable, quality not comparable to to iOS on many aspects, and not free.
Thomas2006
Oct 14, 10:52 AM
BTW Looks like Apple is way overcharging for the 3GHz Woodcrest upgrade. Only cost them $322 more - probably less off the published price list - yet they are asking for $800. That doesn't seem fair to me. Does it to you? I would think that $500 would be a more reasonable upgrade price for something that cost them about $300.
Maybe it is so when the quad-core systems come out Apple can keep the same price for the top-end while lowering the price on dual-core systems and still make a profit. The people that wait for the quad-cores will be happy they did and the people that don't care can get a Mac Pro for less because they waited.
Maybe it is so when the quad-core systems come out Apple can keep the same price for the top-end while lowering the price on dual-core systems and still make a profit. The people that wait for the quad-cores will be happy they did and the people that don't care can get a Mac Pro for less because they waited.
javajedi
Oct 10, 07:10 PM
I just ran the cocoa version on a 700mhz iBook..
get this: 73 seconds! Still very slow compared to x86, but considerably faster than my 800mhz G4 w/L3 cache??
If I recall the processor in the iBook is a 750FX IBM chip.
Amazing. All the more reason to go with an IBM chip for the future Pro Macs.
Thought you guys might find this intresting..
Kevin
get this: 73 seconds! Still very slow compared to x86, but considerably faster than my 800mhz G4 w/L3 cache??
If I recall the processor in the iBook is a 750FX IBM chip.
Amazing. All the more reason to go with an IBM chip for the future Pro Macs.
Thought you guys might find this intresting..
Kevin
*LTD*
Apr 9, 05:31 PM
There's a market for games with more depth that sell at higher prices, and there's a market for cheap on-the-go games that are great for downtime on the train or waiting at the airport.
The point is the line between these two camps is being blurred. It's a feature of the post-PC era. Look at what the App Store games section is evolving into - daily, monthly, yearly. It's pretty astounding. Soon, "hardcore gaming" will characterize other devices in addition to consoles. THIS is the real revolution that's going on when it comes to the gaming market. Apple is redefining it.
The point is the line between these two camps is being blurred. It's a feature of the post-PC era. Look at what the App Store games section is evolving into - daily, monthly, yearly. It's pretty astounding. Soon, "hardcore gaming" will characterize other devices in addition to consoles. THIS is the real revolution that's going on when it comes to the gaming market. Apple is redefining it.
obeygiant
Apr 25, 01:39 PM
I know that there is no chance whatever that the gods espoused by any religion are anything but contemporary imaginations of forces to be explained or propitiated, either in the natural world or in the psychology of homo sapiens. To claim that any one is real, or more real than any other, is blindly to ignore their obvious common derivation.
That about sums it up for me.
That about sums it up for me.
emil.lofman
Aug 29, 12:45 PM
Greenpeace can shove it.
Now that's an appropriate handle you've got there!
One question for you, and all other posters that in some words or other wants Greenpeace to f off...
Do you think that
a) Greenpeace is lying
or
b) it's pretty cool that the human race will soon be extinct?
Now that's an appropriate handle you've got there!
One question for you, and all other posters that in some words or other wants Greenpeace to f off...
Do you think that
a) Greenpeace is lying
or
b) it's pretty cool that the human race will soon be extinct?
Peace
Sep 12, 05:02 PM
Engadget has posted pics :
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/apple-to-release-itv-video-streaming-box-in-2007/
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/hands-on-with-the-apple-itv-prototype/
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/apple-to-release-itv-video-streaming-box-in-2007/
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/hands-on-with-the-apple-itv-prototype/
Clive At Five
Sep 20, 10:08 PM
Umm, it's called a VCR. Do you remember when that was considered illegal when it first came out? Or the cassette tape?
OMG, you have a VCR still?! What's it like?
teehee.
Only kidding.
Still, I don't think it's legal to videotape TV broadcasts of any form. That's why you have to pay for it on iTunes. If you want to watch it at your liesure, you have to pay for that liesure. Whether that means finding (and putting up with) a VCR and taping it (illegally) or footing the $6 for the last 3 episodes of Lost it's the price someone has to pay.
-Clive
OMG, you have a VCR still?! What's it like?
teehee.
Only kidding.
Still, I don't think it's legal to videotape TV broadcasts of any form. That's why you have to pay for it on iTunes. If you want to watch it at your liesure, you have to pay for that liesure. Whether that means finding (and putting up with) a VCR and taping it (illegally) or footing the $6 for the last 3 episodes of Lost it's the price someone has to pay.
-Clive
blackburn
Apr 9, 04:29 PM
Real gamers won't use apple gear (for gaming at least). I don't really like the online game craze. You can't borrow games from friends or even trade them (yeah more profit for the industry).
Since my game pc died I've bought an psp to play a few games once in a while, and not an ipod touch since it doesn't have any friggin' buttons in it. And macs just suck too much at gaming (looking at toasty imacs), in here the only thing that keeps kids wanting an iDevice it's because it's cool and having an apple thing means that your either an hipster or an rich (or broke with lots of debts).
Long live the moments of the game boy, hell I still play some game boy games in my psp with an emulator:D
Since my game pc died I've bought an psp to play a few games once in a while, and not an ipod touch since it doesn't have any friggin' buttons in it. And macs just suck too much at gaming (looking at toasty imacs), in here the only thing that keeps kids wanting an iDevice it's because it's cool and having an apple thing means that your either an hipster or an rich (or broke with lots of debts).
Long live the moments of the game boy, hell I still play some game boy games in my psp with an emulator:D
PghLondon
Apr 28, 03:20 PM
You keep forgetting that most people run Windows on their Mac computers and iTunes on Windows is junk (yeah, Apple demands that others - like Adobe - optimize their software, if only they did that themselves).
Most people run windows on their macs? are you high?
Most people run windows on their macs? are you high?
mdntcallr
Sep 12, 03:26 PM
While this certainly is a nice interface to a entertainment system.
this certainly isnt a full function media center.
Why no computer with all of this functionality? this is kinda like front row, but not much extra?
Why can't we buy a mid sized tower (in stereo size) which can have HDMI 1080p output? with blu-ray drive built in?
hey just asking. i know blu-ray is just getting started, but i'd like apple to be on it from the get go.
this certainly isnt a full function media center.
Why no computer with all of this functionality? this is kinda like front row, but not much extra?
Why can't we buy a mid sized tower (in stereo size) which can have HDMI 1080p output? with blu-ray drive built in?
hey just asking. i know blu-ray is just getting started, but i'd like apple to be on it from the get go.
firestarter
Mar 13, 02:09 PM
But how do you proponents of nuclear power discount the very real risks it poses to mankind itself? War and terrorism especially. HUGE accident(s) waiting to happen.
If you choose not to have nuclear power, you're choosing to have oil - and all the problems that brings with it.
I can't recall a war fought over nuclear power, but we're living through one driven by our need to access cheap oil (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2461214.ece).
Do you think that our heavy handed approach to Persian Gulf politics increases or decreases the threat of terrorism? Although we've been keen to see regime change in Egypt and Libya, there's no way we'll assist any sort of change in Saudi - since we need the oil. Yet most of the 9/11 hijackers were disaffected Saudi men! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks)
So I think your argument that nuclear power increases the threat of terrorism and war is naive, given that the only other option is oil - which most definitely does!
If you choose not to have nuclear power, you're choosing to have oil - and all the problems that brings with it.
I can't recall a war fought over nuclear power, but we're living through one driven by our need to access cheap oil (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2461214.ece).
Do you think that our heavy handed approach to Persian Gulf politics increases or decreases the threat of terrorism? Although we've been keen to see regime change in Egypt and Libya, there's no way we'll assist any sort of change in Saudi - since we need the oil. Yet most of the 9/11 hijackers were disaffected Saudi men! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks)
So I think your argument that nuclear power increases the threat of terrorism and war is naive, given that the only other option is oil - which most definitely does!
YoungCreative
Jun 27, 07:56 PM
Bash AT&T and flame me all you want, but I had 2 nightmare years with Verizon before I purchased my iPhone three years ago. I couldn't get a signal in my home 90% of the time with Verizon. I usually had to walk outside to make a call. That was convenient in sub-freezing weather!
When I went to the Verizon store, they told me that there shouldn't be a problem since I live in the middle of a "very strong" signal area. :eek:
Even if I had a call going, it would drop as soon as I walked downstairs. The final straw was one day in the supermarket just 3 blocks from home. I could not get a signal on Verizon, yet there was someone talking on a cell phone right next to me. Yep! They had AT&T!
Now I have my iPhone and it works great...even in my basement AND in the store. My friend came over one day and said he tried to use his phone while he was here. No Signal! Yep! He has Verizon. He also said that he can't use his phone at the same store: No signal!
It all depends on the area. No carrier has as good of coverage as they claim in their ads. (Commercials are misleading? No! Say it ain't so! :D)
Go with the carrier that works for you and don't assume that yours is best for everyone. For me, AT&T works great...but I can't wait to upgrade my original iPhone and get rid of that annoying AT&T Edge buzz in my computer speakers and interference on my TV screen.
Bottom Line: I AGREE that Apple should open the iPhone up to other carriers. That way everyone can use the one that's best for them and just end this whole debate!
When I went to the Verizon store, they told me that there shouldn't be a problem since I live in the middle of a "very strong" signal area. :eek:
Even if I had a call going, it would drop as soon as I walked downstairs. The final straw was one day in the supermarket just 3 blocks from home. I could not get a signal on Verizon, yet there was someone talking on a cell phone right next to me. Yep! They had AT&T!
Now I have my iPhone and it works great...even in my basement AND in the store. My friend came over one day and said he tried to use his phone while he was here. No Signal! Yep! He has Verizon. He also said that he can't use his phone at the same store: No signal!
It all depends on the area. No carrier has as good of coverage as they claim in their ads. (Commercials are misleading? No! Say it ain't so! :D)
Go with the carrier that works for you and don't assume that yours is best for everyone. For me, AT&T works great...but I can't wait to upgrade my original iPhone and get rid of that annoying AT&T Edge buzz in my computer speakers and interference on my TV screen.
Bottom Line: I AGREE that Apple should open the iPhone up to other carriers. That way everyone can use the one that's best for them and just end this whole debate!
�algiris
May 2, 09:28 AM
You're awfully sensitive about this issue, chief.
When things a blown out of proportions.
When things a blown out of proportions.
Howdr
Mar 18, 08:40 AM
So you're saying that if you steal $10 vs $1 million - it's not stealing? No doubt different levels of crime - but both are illegal.
But see my post above. The long/short of it is - unlimited data is specific to the device as per the TOS. If you're breaking the TOS, you're breaking the TOS - no matter how you or anyone tries to justify it - and ATT can "retaliate" as it's within their right as per that TOS.
I do not support ATT doing anything to those who already have a metered (limited) data plan. THAT makes no sense.
Sir what is being stolen?
Data=Data
At&t adds the data together for a month of use in your plan
2=2=4gb of data a month, this has been explained by At&t over and over
So If I use 2gb and use it on the phone or tether its the same
I have unlimited
if I use 3 gb of data next month I have stole nothing
I used data
what is your point?
Crap about TOS, so what If I write a contract that you agree to buy Gas at my station for $2 a gallon when you fill up your car for a year. You then show up with a red gallon gas can I run out and say "The TOS says Car not Gas can" and I want to charge you $4 for the same gas now, this is not crap?
You know companies lie and steal from us everyday doesn't make it right.
I do not support ATT doing anything to those who already have a metered (limited) data plan. THAT makes no sense.
I see you have an issue with those grandfathered, like we are stealing because we have unlimited? At&t has unlimited Data for $45 a month, its called Enterprise I see it in my account every month.
It's not my fault you did not own an Iphone before unlimited was stopped.
Also how about the two years I paid for 3g service and could not get 3g in my area? I disputed this with At&t and won.
Stop making excuses for bad behavior (By At&t)
But see my post above. The long/short of it is - unlimited data is specific to the device as per the TOS. If you're breaking the TOS, you're breaking the TOS - no matter how you or anyone tries to justify it - and ATT can "retaliate" as it's within their right as per that TOS.
I do not support ATT doing anything to those who already have a metered (limited) data plan. THAT makes no sense.
Sir what is being stolen?
Data=Data
At&t adds the data together for a month of use in your plan
2=2=4gb of data a month, this has been explained by At&t over and over
So If I use 2gb and use it on the phone or tether its the same
I have unlimited
if I use 3 gb of data next month I have stole nothing
I used data
what is your point?
Crap about TOS, so what If I write a contract that you agree to buy Gas at my station for $2 a gallon when you fill up your car for a year. You then show up with a red gallon gas can I run out and say "The TOS says Car not Gas can" and I want to charge you $4 for the same gas now, this is not crap?
You know companies lie and steal from us everyday doesn't make it right.
I do not support ATT doing anything to those who already have a metered (limited) data plan. THAT makes no sense.
I see you have an issue with those grandfathered, like we are stealing because we have unlimited? At&t has unlimited Data for $45 a month, its called Enterprise I see it in my account every month.
It's not my fault you did not own an Iphone before unlimited was stopped.
Also how about the two years I paid for 3g service and could not get 3g in my area? I disputed this with At&t and won.
Stop making excuses for bad behavior (By At&t)
Jayomat
Apr 10, 10:09 AM
Hi guys,
I realize that this is a Mac forum, so chances are good that everyone here is happy with their decision to switch from Windows to Mac. But since there's no sub-forum on a Windows forum called "I tried a Mac but didn't like it" I'll ask here. :)
As someone that has used Windows since before Windows (DOS) and has never used a Mac, what might I NOT like about it?
What might be uncomfortable or difficult?
What major learning curves should I expect? Etc., etc...
I'm sure you get what I'm asking here ;) so please share whatever info you can.
Thanks in advance!
If you are happy with windows stick with it. if you don't "have" to switch because you need a specifitc application, just don't do it. It's not "THAT MUCH" better as everyone wants to make you believe. I still like to use my macbook though ;)
You might not like the lack of customization, the need to drag and drop to move files (most cases), windows resizing, the dock, finder in general, graphics performance, lack of games, lack of professional software other than audio/video etc... the list goes on...
I realize that this is a Mac forum, so chances are good that everyone here is happy with their decision to switch from Windows to Mac. But since there's no sub-forum on a Windows forum called "I tried a Mac but didn't like it" I'll ask here. :)
As someone that has used Windows since before Windows (DOS) and has never used a Mac, what might I NOT like about it?
What might be uncomfortable or difficult?
What major learning curves should I expect? Etc., etc...
I'm sure you get what I'm asking here ;) so please share whatever info you can.
Thanks in advance!
If you are happy with windows stick with it. if you don't "have" to switch because you need a specifitc application, just don't do it. It's not "THAT MUCH" better as everyone wants to make you believe. I still like to use my macbook though ;)
You might not like the lack of customization, the need to drag and drop to move files (most cases), windows resizing, the dock, finder in general, graphics performance, lack of games, lack of professional software other than audio/video etc... the list goes on...
Mord
Jul 12, 04:12 PM
we are not saying conroe is crap it just is not suitable for a mac pro.
CaoCao
Mar 27, 04:15 PM
If he did that, he goofed. But I know I made a mistake: I missed your point. Now I understand it. Thanks. Maybe he tried to communicate with me in Latin because he know I usually attend the Traditional Latin Mass.
Indeed sir, that is why I tried.
Deo favente
Pax
Indeed sir, that is why I tried.
Deo favente
Pax
fpnc
Mar 19, 01:54 AM
tveric, actually, I didn't call any individual "stupid," I said you'd have to be stupid to use PyMusique (the former and the latter are not exactly the same thing). Sorry if you were somehow offended.
Everybody relax.
I am.
I agree however that Apple will probably soon block access through PyMusique and that might not even require any changes other than on the server side of the music store. That's another reason why this whole story is pretty much overblown.
Well, 18 hours later, here we are, I used a Pepsi cap song to download thru PyMusique, it plays perfectly and all that, and so far my account hasn't been cancelled. You know why? Because it JUST ISN'T WORTH THE FRIGGIN EFFORT on Apple's part to start cancelling accounts for using this software. They have to come up with a block to PyM anyway, and that will solve all their problems.
As for violation of the TOS, nobody gives a rip except people who were hall monitors in high school. And as for being stupid, well, maybe some of us just like our freedom without limits. You can attack us for being "stupid" all you want, but that doesn't necessarily make it the truth. Get used to it - DRM is a paper tiger. I buy music thru iTMS, I buy music on CD, I buy it at allofmp3.com for a dollar an album, and I download for free too. No amount of DRM is going to make me change my habits. Only differences in prices and convenience will make me shift from one method to another when required.
Everybody relax.
I am.
I agree however that Apple will probably soon block access through PyMusique and that might not even require any changes other than on the server side of the music store. That's another reason why this whole story is pretty much overblown.
Well, 18 hours later, here we are, I used a Pepsi cap song to download thru PyMusique, it plays perfectly and all that, and so far my account hasn't been cancelled. You know why? Because it JUST ISN'T WORTH THE FRIGGIN EFFORT on Apple's part to start cancelling accounts for using this software. They have to come up with a block to PyM anyway, and that will solve all their problems.
As for violation of the TOS, nobody gives a rip except people who were hall monitors in high school. And as for being stupid, well, maybe some of us just like our freedom without limits. You can attack us for being "stupid" all you want, but that doesn't necessarily make it the truth. Get used to it - DRM is a paper tiger. I buy music thru iTMS, I buy music on CD, I buy it at allofmp3.com for a dollar an album, and I download for free too. No amount of DRM is going to make me change my habits. Only differences in prices and convenience will make me shift from one method to another when required.
jayenh
Feb 24, 08:44 AM
This could also be a flaw, I would be really annoyed if I bought the best droid available and then a month later another six of them come out better than mine. A lot of people like buying the best available and then riding it out until the next model is available, but when there phone gets replaced by another 40 phones I am not to sure how people will react.
iphone users are the only people who do this. before the iphone it was pretty well accepted that your new nokia/sony ericson/blackberry/anything is only going to be new for the next 3 months tops until the next model comes out. the mobile industry used to be probably the fastest paced of the tech industries and at it's peak no one gave a crap that there phone manufacturer brought out a new phone every couple of months.
i suppose it was a little easier to swallow with 12 month contracts being the norm until the last couple of years (in the uk at least), but this is the fault of carriers, not the phone manufacturers. they are doing the exact same release cycle they always have done.
edit: not all iphone users, obviously, but probably a larger proportion of iphone users than [insert any phone here] users based on the outrage when the 3gs came out. and that was possibly only because of assumption (the mother of all f... ups) due to the cheap/free (?) upgrade of the 1st gen to 3g. i bet there won't be that outcry this year.
iphone users are the only people who do this. before the iphone it was pretty well accepted that your new nokia/sony ericson/blackberry/anything is only going to be new for the next 3 months tops until the next model comes out. the mobile industry used to be probably the fastest paced of the tech industries and at it's peak no one gave a crap that there phone manufacturer brought out a new phone every couple of months.
i suppose it was a little easier to swallow with 12 month contracts being the norm until the last couple of years (in the uk at least), but this is the fault of carriers, not the phone manufacturers. they are doing the exact same release cycle they always have done.
edit: not all iphone users, obviously, but probably a larger proportion of iphone users than [insert any phone here] users based on the outrage when the 3gs came out. and that was possibly only because of assumption (the mother of all f... ups) due to the cheap/free (?) upgrade of the 1st gen to 3g. i bet there won't be that outcry this year.
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